Irish Emigrants
Mr. Gormley: Will the Minister of State elaborate on the proposed idea for an on-line database for illegal Irish immigrants living in the USA to gain an accurate picture of how many such persons there are? As the Minister of State knows, the estimates vary. The US Government estimates 3,000 while we estimate between 20,000 and 50,000. What is the exact figure? Could there be potential difficulties with this idea in that people do not wish to put forward their names because they are illegal? If they were to remain anonymous, accurate data could not be gathered.
Mr. Treacy: Deputy Gormley is correct. We have examined this issue in great detail. The Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Noel Ahern, had a positive discussion on immigration reform with President Bush on Saint Patrick’s Day and prior to that in Dromoland Castle. Following this, the Minister asked his officials to again determine ways of getting a more precise sense of the size of our undocumented population, including the possibility of setting up an on-line database for this purpose. However, the widespread view after much consultation was that our undocumented people would be unlikely to register on a database for the reasons the Deputy suggested. This is understandable and, under these circumstances, it has been decided not to go ahead with the approach.
(later)
Mr. Gormley: I asked the Minister of State an additional question about the current estimates for illegal immigrants. What is the Government’s present estimate and how did it arrive at this figure?
Mr. Treacy: I do not have a de facto figure. From our consultations with the United States, there are at least 3,000 Irish immigrants there. From other estimations that have been made, the figure could be 20,000 and is certainly not more than 50,000. We are not sure, which is a serious difficulty. We know there has been much mobility of Irish immigrants into and out of the US through other countries, sometimes to return to Ireland and sometimes to leave again. We are not sure of the final destinations in certain cases. Hence, it is difficult to have a final figure.
In response to Deputy McGrath, it is unfair to say that the Government has a brass neck in the situation. In the 23 years that I have been in this House the elected Members have always been supportive and have assisted our people in all parts of the world, no matter what the situation. There is a unity of purpose there.
If one examines the situation last May, when new members joined the European Union, Ireland was the only country to give an absolute guarantee that anybody from an EU country could come to work here. Everybody said that was a crazy decision, that the floodgates would open —–
Mr. Gormley: Nobody said that.
Mr. Treacy: A lot of people said that.
Mr. Gormley: We supported that decision.
Mr. Treacy: Yes, but many people criticised the Government for that decision.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh: It was a small minority of people who criticised it.
Mr. Gormley: The Deputy should be very careful in what he says. We supported that decision. We supported the Government.
Mr. Treacy: I appreciate the support that existed. I am not referring to people in this House.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh: It was a small minority.
Mr. Treacy: The Government was criticised for that decision. It was consistent, open and accommodating and there has not been a crisis in that area since. When it comes to the situation pertaining to citizens of our country and citizens of the European Union, we are all one. We have that commonality and there are equal rights in that situation and we have a fundamental responsibility to ensure that where we require workers, priority is given to people in the EU.
Non-EU citizens have come here for a number of reasons - some are economic migrants, others are seeking their human rights, fleeing tragedies in their countries and so on. People have come here but we must be measured and reasonable. In a small island - an open country - we must ensure that we have a system that is equitable, fair, systematic, clear and properly administered and that nobody can get through the system easily and cause problems for the country. We must be very careful and we are reasoned and measured in our actions. We all have a duty, as parliamentarians, to have a unity of purpose in discharging our responsibilities and ensuring that, together, we manage what is a difficult, complex and humane situation. All of us have that serious responsibility.